Soriano for Horacio Rameriz - Page 4

Wiggen · December 23rd, 2006, 03:01 PM

Zito is no worse than a #2 on almost all major league teams.

Slica · December 23rd, 2006, 03:55 PM

I never implied Zito was a #3 starter to begin with. I was using him in light of his situation in comparison to Ramirez. He is easily a TOR pitcher, though I think he falls off the edge of 'Ace' status.

Perhaps I should use a different guy?

My whole point is that Ramirez is not a #3 starter. Maybe a few years back, but he hasn't been very good at all the last few years. He might be a very good #5, but a #3 is stretching it too far...

As for the Ace question, I have no idea where that came from...but ill answer it before my pizza is done...Ace would be a guy who is consistently among the top in baseball, and is just plain consistent. Hes a pitcher who teams go in knowing its going to be a tough day at the plate every time he comes out to the mound. I dunno...I dont understand the question. I know you're not stupid and actually wanna know what an Ace is, so where did this question come from? Did I imply something about an Ace somewhere? Just wondering.

bedir than average · December 23rd, 2006, 04:02 PM

You said

Quote:

If you classified him under the #3 starter category, you'd be saying he is just as good as Barry Zito.

That means you did say that Zito is a #3. Which lead me to ponder the whole notion of Classifying Starters, and so I wrote the thread linked in my signature at this time.

Boras will tell you that Zito is a "true #1," he may even claim he's an Ace.

Slica · December 23rd, 2006, 04:07 PM

Aha I see where that question came from.

Zito is a #2 starter. #1 if you dont have a very good rotation. By no means did I say he was a #3...Zito is my favorite nonMariner pitcher, so I wouldnt sell him short based off hate, too. So again, if thats what you may think I implied, I didnt. Zito is a legit #2.

bedir than average · December 23rd, 2006, 04:13 PM

How can a #3 be as good as Zito if Zito is a #2?

Slica · December 23rd, 2006, 04:26 PM

I already explained why I made the comparison.

Zito is the big topic of baseball currently, so I used him for convenience. I believe I also said 'almost' when comparing the two, implying that a #2 would be close...you know, after 2 comes 3? Heh. This was purely the convenient route...like I said, I could use another pitcher for the comparison.

Is the interogation over? : P

bedir than average · December 23rd, 2006, 04:32 PM

Sorry, I'm not trying to parse out the meaning of every word. Zito isn't important enough for that kind of legalistic crap.

Thanks for checking out the broader thread on pitching classification as well. Its a subject that has intrigued me for some time. So many media people use words like Ace or Number One as if they are interchangable. I prefer the more fungible phrases like TOR, MOR and Back End.

Slica · December 23rd, 2006, 05:38 PM

Same here, if I use the word Ace, I prefer to use it with the word 'Staff' in front of it. Its one thing to be a great pitcher, but its another to be a great pitcher, and the leader of a group...

Still, I prefer TOR.

This brings me another queston, though im getting slightly offtopic here:

What is MOTR considered to be? I know most see it as the #3 and #4 guy, but personally I see it as a #2 or #3 guy. Unless you have a deep staff, there usually is not much difference in the 2 and 3 guys, same with the 4 and 5 guys. If you're comparing your #3 to a #4 by calling them both MOTR, it only makes the #3 guy look worse. Just a random thought.

December 23rd, 2006, 04:13 PM	#50 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	How can a #3 be as good as Zito if Zito is a #2? __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.

December 23rd, 2006, 04:32 PM	#52 (permalink)
bedir than average Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,258	Sorry, I'm not trying to parse out the meaning of every word. Zito isn't important enough for that kind of legalistic crap. Thanks for checking out the broader thread on pitching classification as well. Its a subject that has intrigued me for some time. So many media people use words like Ace or Number One as if they are interchangable. I prefer the more fungible phrases like TOR, MOR and Back End. __________________ I'm sorry I left for a while. I needed a vaction, and then work changed substantially. I'm over 50 hour weeks, plus two hours a day of commuting time. A few weeks ago I launched my own blog about Seattle Sounders FC and Life in Puget Sound. I won't be by these parts often as my focus has changed. Sorry about the unannounced retirement.

December 23rd, 2006, 03:01 PM	#46 (permalink)
Wiggen Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,563	Zito is no worse than a #2 on almost all major league teams.

December 23rd, 2006, 03:55 PM	#47 (permalink)
Slica Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 168	I never implied Zito was a #3 starter to begin with. I was using him in light of his situation in comparison to Ramirez. He is easily a TOR pitcher, though I think he falls off the edge of 'Ace' status. Perhaps I should use a different guy? My whole point is that Ramirez is not a #3 starter. Maybe a few years back, but he hasn't been very good at all the last few years. He might be a very good #5, but a #3 is stretching it too far... As for the Ace question, I have no idea where that came from...but ill answer it before my pizza is done...Ace would be a guy who is consistently among the top in baseball, and is just plain consistent. Hes a pitcher who teams go in knowing its going to be a tough day at the plate every time he comes out to the mound. I dunno...I dont understand the question. I know you're not stupid and actually wanna know what an Ace is, so where did this question come from? Did I imply something about an Ace somewhere? Just wondering.

December 23rd, 2006, 04:07 PM	#49 (permalink)
Slica Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 168	Aha I see where that question came from. Zito is a #2 starter. #1 if you dont have a very good rotation. By no means did I say he was a #3...Zito is my favorite nonMariner pitcher, so I wouldnt sell him short based off hate, too. So again, if thats what you may think I implied, I didnt. Zito is a legit #2.

December 23rd, 2006, 04:26 PM	#51 (permalink)
Slica Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 168	I already explained why I made the comparison. Zito is the big topic of baseball currently, so I used him for convenience. I believe I also said 'almost' when comparing the two, implying that a #2 would be close...you know, after 2 comes 3? Heh. This was purely the convenient route...like I said, I could use another pitcher for the comparison. Is the interogation over? : P

December 23rd, 2006, 05:38 PM	#53 (permalink)
Slica Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 168	Same here, if I use the word Ace, I prefer to use it with the word 'Staff' in front of it. Its one thing to be a great pitcher, but its another to be a great pitcher, and the leader of a group... Still, I prefer TOR. This brings me another queston, though im getting slightly offtopic here: What is MOTR considered to be? I know most see it as the #3 and #4 guy, but personally I see it as a #2 or #3 guy. Unless you have a deep staff, there usually is not much difference in the 2 and 3 guys, same with the 4 and 5 guys. If you're comparing your #3 to a #4 by calling them both MOTR, it only makes the #3 guy look worse. Just a random thought.